First Refutation

I'm a brazilian magician, and even though I'm not an initiate of african-syncretic religions, I'm on direct contact with them since I was a child - as almost any brazilian, even those from regions of massive european colonization. I attended to a vast number of circles from many brazilian branches of this tradition: Candomble, Macumba, Quimbanda, Nacao, Umbanda and Xango. I have many friends who are initiates of one of this branches, and sometimes I even use some african-syncretic elements on my practice.

The recent postings about NYC Voudu, Pomba Gira Botanica and Madison caught my attention. This woman claims familiarity with brazilian african-syncretic religions, but doesn't seem to have a minimal notion about Candomble, Quimbanda or any of the branches.

Let's choose a Madison's text. Here it goes:

> Sat. Aug 24th at 3pm there will be a circle for Pomba Gira, the  
> Brazillian goddess of sex, death and the crossroads.  This will 
> be a circle of dance and positive physical transcendence,  
>(Overcoming obstacles and broadening perspectives.)  (NYC Vodou.)  
> Please bring food, drink, spiritual books for the free lending 
>library and canned food the homeless if possible.  Please be  
>clean sane and sober. 

Seven lines, lots of nonsense.

First of all, Pomba Gira is not a goddess: it's the female counterpart to Exu. Both aren't even regarded as Orixas by some of the brazilian religions. In those, Exu is seen as a messenger from the Orixas, the one who makes the link between they and the mankind. The Pomba Giras are just a step above the Eguns, the spirits of the dead. A Nacao's pai-de-santo made me a curious remark one time, telling that the Exus and Pomba Giras are "the breed of the first wife of Adam".

And for the crossroads, they're related just to the Exus, mainly Exu Tranca-Rua. When Pomba Giras appear related to crossroads, the only reason is that they are there to "make company" to the Exus. Someone who claims to do a Pomba Gira circle with such advice as "be clean sane and sober" doesn't seem to have a clue about what is dealing with. The Pomba Giras, as a "family", are known for their aggressive and ostensively sexual mood, as anybody who has attended to a real Pomba Gira circle can testify. Maria Navalha, to stay with just one exemple, is depicted as a whore and a cold blooded killer, who slays men with a razorblade. "Positive" ? Not much.

A Pomba Gira circle is caracterized by heavy drinking, obscene behaviour and a real "demonic" atmosphere. This simply doesn't fit with Madison's ritual. Nor are PG's circles renowned by doing charity as "canned food for the homeless". In fact, if you promise something to Pomba Gira and neglects it, bad things can happen.

"Dance and positive physical transcendence". Give me a break. The only ones who can dance at a Pomba Gira circle are the PGs themselves. They're jealous and angry, and if someone dares to catch more attention or be more sensual than they, it's better run. A PG circle has a single goal: ask for favours, often on sexual matters. If this sort of thing is called physical transcendence, my English is worse than I thought.

Besides all this nonsense about Pomba Gira, anyone with knowledge of brazilian afro-syncretic traditions can point out some disparities. "Pomba Gira Botanica" ? There are no "botanicas" on Brazil: they're called Floras. And I have never seen a Flora dedicated to Pomba Gira or Exu. They're regarded as "hardcore" entities, respected and feared - definitely nothing to play with.

It seems obvious to me that Madison is a fake. I hope her rituals never attract the attention of the Pomba Giras, Exus or even the other Orixas, for the results can be really hazardous.

Some clues to Madison: if you want to perform "lightside Candomble circles", try picking another Orixa. Or, better yet, try picking another religion to claim mastery on. And if you are yaking so much about threats made to your child, then you really don't have a clue about Pomba Gira. Seems that you're bringing the slayer to your own home.

Good luck.

Daniel Pellizzari	   |  e-mail: 
Porto Alegre, RS, BRAZIL   |  IRC nick: Cronopium 
  kaZa kaotika --> 

Second Refutation (Oya & Pomba) wrote:


>> Only a handful of the Orixas can consecrate a Flora. It is not a 
>> personal choice, like picking wallpaper. 
>Okay, WHICH of them can do so and how do you know?
Only Orixas with strong protective attributes are chosen to consecrate a Flora. It's simple: you can't trust on Exu/Pomba Gira for that. It's like giving matches and gasoline to a pyromaniac.

>> Pomba Gira is the female form of Exu. Because of Xian Syncretism, he is 
>> usually depicted as Satan and is the patron of lust, vengeance, and 
>> greed. 
>Another flub on your part.  Exu is the Brazilian version of Eleggua (Papa 
>Legba in Vodou) who is the trickster, the gate-keeper, and the 
>representative of the cross-roads.
No, things are not that simple. Exu surely have some connections to Legba (the Gege form of his name), but he's not the same entity as Eleggua. They having some equal attributes (trickster, crossroads, gatekeeping) don't make them the same entity. I'm an occultist and I perform rituals, but I'm not the same person that you are.

Who is Exu, then ?

He's regarded as an Orixa by some traditions (Candomble, Macumba, some Quimbanda 'terreiros'), and as a 'dark spirit' by others (Umbanda, Nacao, some Quimbanda 'terreiros'). Pomba Gira (I'll talk about her later) is her female counterpart.

Exu is the universal magic agent, used in Candomble to link the man with the Orixa. Being an universal agent, is a two-sided knife. He's a mercenary who does nothing without instant reward. Exu is flamboyant, vain, lover of richness, vices, parties and uproar, and he is never concerned with moral matters. Depending on the terreiro, he can be even pornografic and obscene. His offerings (named 'pades') are made of flour, dende oil and 'marafo' (sugar cane liquor). His sacrificial animals are the ox, the goat, and black chicken. His weapons: the pitchfork, gunpowder and knives.

Without Exu, nothing can be done on Candomble. He loves earthly pleasires, and even having no sex, he assumes some exaggerated gender attributes. When this attributes are female, Exu is called Pombojira (often misnamed as Pombagira). The Pombojira's speciality is th sensual/sexual field.

Exu acts as an intermediary for the Orixas to manifest themselves. Each one has his own Exu:

Oxala: the Seven; Sete Capas, Sete Encruzilhadas, etc, and Exu Rei.
Xango: Marabo (or Barabo)
Ogum: Exu Tiriri
Oxossi: Exu Veludo
Omulu (Abaluaie): Exu Caveira, Exu Sete Catacumbas.
Nana-Buruque: Exu do Lodo.
Oxum: Exu Cheiroso, Exu Brasa.
Iemanja: Exu da Meia-Noite, Exu Tronqueira.
Iansan: Exu Ventania.
Oxum-Mare: Pombojira.
Ossae: Exu da Mata, Exu Barabo Toquinho.

The most popular Exu is Tranca-Rua (Path-Locker), who can act as an intermediary for any Orixa.

Exu is also known as Aluvia (Angola) and Bombonjira (Congo).

>>Pomba Gira generally follows suit and is thus depicted as the 
>>Whore of Babylon. One notable sphere which Pomba Gira covers which Exu 
>>does not, is vampirism; both physical and metaphysical. 
>Pomba Gira is the orisha who deals with Sex, death, and the crossroads,
Pomba Gira is not an orixa. She's just the female counterpart to Exu, who isn't always regarded as an Orixa himself. Yes, she deals with sex and some crossroads (the 'female' ones, in T shape). Omulu is the Orixa who deals with Death.

>and since she shares some of her responsibilities with Exu, is sometimes
Obviously she does. They're the same entity.

>known as "Exu-Woman" the same way that Oya is sometimes referred to as 
>"Chango-Woman." (You really don't know this stuff at ALL, do you, Cliff?

>>Many Brazilian 
>>African-Syncretic religions are unlike Santeria and Voudon in that they 
>>incorporate a surprising amount of hermetic black magic, particularly 
>> from the  Lemegeton, in religious practice. That book, also known as 
>> the Goetia and the Lesser Key of Solomon, is almost exclusively 
>> dedicated to the summoning of demons. Exu's altars are traditionally 
>> adorned with copious amounts of animal blood, numerous miniature iron 
>> pitchforks, and fistfuls of powdered sulfur. (For a picture, check my 
>> old Exu page at 
>> Rites to both he and his female counterpart tend to be ribald and 
>> involve heavy intoxication. The plural forms of the names Exu and Pomba 
>> Gira (as "exus" and "pomba giras") translate as "demons" and 
>> "demonesses", respectively. The Yoruba etymology for Exu is xu-- 
>Cliff, all the stuff you're citing is associated with ceremonial White 
>Men's "Black Magick" not Brazilian or anything else as far as I can tell.
You really don't know this stuff at ALL, do you ?

Quimbanda and Nacao have a enormous amount of goetic influence. The altars are just like that. The rites are obscene and orgiastic. Anyone can see you never attented to an Exu circle (there's no exclusively Pomba Gira circle, btw).

We're not on Africa, for your information. 70% or more of the present-day followers of african-syncretic religions are white, and I'm talking about millions of people. Brazilian african religions are the result of many influences besides Yoruba myth, and hermetic "black" magic is one of them, along with portuguese folklore, native religions and lots of others. If you have the chance to put your hands over the most (in)famous Quimbanda's book, "O Livro Negro de Sao Cipriano", you'll see the Exu and Astaroth together with cabalistic sigils.

Look at the Exu statues on a terreiro or flora. At a first glance, you'll see a lot of red and horned figures. Look closer. Search for Exu Belzebu, for example. Surprise: it's Baphomet. Bingo.

>> The invitation to the event which caused me consternation included: 
>> "Sat. Aug 24th at 3pm there will be a circle for Pomba Gira, the 
>> Brazillian goddess of sex, death and the crossroads.  This will be a 
>> circle of dance and positive physical transcendence, (Overcoming 
>> obstacles and broadening perspectives.)  (NYC Vodou.)  Please bring 
>> food, drink, spiritual books for the free lending library and canned 
>> food the homeless if possible.  Please be clean sane and sober." 
>That was a VERY powerful, positive, and extremely fun circle for all those 
>who attended (including me).  YOU weren't there, Cliff.  How would you
Cliff weren't there, and anyone can see Pomba Gira weren't either. You're lucky you don't have the knowledge to make Exu or Pomba Gira manifest themselves. Go ahead.

>know anything about hat we did or didn't do? 
>> This does not sound at all like an authentic rite for Pomba Gira; and 
>> if Madison actually ever manages to invoke her, I fear for any novices 
>> nearby who'd suffer the fallout. Billing a Pomba Gira rite as Vodou is 
>> inaccurate, and billing it as lightside and encouraging novices to 
>> attend is either callous, misguided, or just plain nuts. 
>Look, did anyone ever teach you how to READ A BOOK?  The Vodu loas, 
>Santerian orishas, and Brazilian orixas (not to mention all the variants 
>of them from countless Yoruban-based religions) are all the same, existing 
>in each of those various pantheons.  Telling them they're not real is only 
>going to piss them off.
Hey, hold your horses. They came from the same source (I'm not sure about the loas), but they're not the same. If they're all the same, where is Pomba Gira on Santeria ? There's Nana-Buruque on Vodou ? No.


>> who pointed out that Madison had claimed fam trad Wiccan High 
>> Priestesshood a few years back, before she got on her African-Syncretic 
>> kick. 
>No, Mad claimed a "fam trad" DRUIDIC background.  She is not Wiccan nor
I don't know Madison, but it would be surprising to meet anybody with a fam trad druidic background. Historians would be pleased.


>I've been doing a little bit of thinking about the postings and 
>allegations made by Clifford Low, Kevin Filan & thier associates.  (Not 
>including Kevin's threat to my sixteen month old daughter.  That sort of 
>behavior goes beyond foolishness or pranks.)  Anyone who would like to see
Do you want to know what kind of behavior "goes beyond foolishness or pranks" ?

Dealing with Pomba Gira and worrying about external threats to a female child.

That's not just foolishness, it's plain ignorance.

>a copy of those threats or have more information on that situation e-mail 
I want more information about it. E-mail to

>I have come to this conclusion. It is deeply regrettable that slander 
>can be so easily performed on the internet and that so many pagans choose 
>to employ it against other pagans.  (Seeking attention or some petty 
>retribution for imagined slights.) 
>Dissension and inability to "pull together" in the pagan community 
>seems to be the primary reason that pagans present such an easy target for 
>the media and religious/political persecution from outside our community.
Hehe. I was just thinking: Exu would love this situation.

After all, you could have been successful on one invocation.

Maybe two.

Ok, three.

Cool, Exu is raving on the net, laughing at our "oh-I'm-so-serious" faces.


	Daniel Pellizzari	     |   email: 
	Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil     |   IRC: Cronopium 
	  kaZa kaotika -->